Fabrik8

So if you don't install them properly, they don't work correctly? Interesting.

Audio

So if you do not read my post correctly, you make false statements.. hmm


ARP tells you they will stretch after use and are recommended to be retorqued after say 500 miles. However I had them on a 20+psi turbo motor, therefore they stretched a little quicker.

Fabrik8

That's great and all, and some of the reason for the re-torque is actually because of head gasket compression, and you didn't follow directions. You just said they were supposed to be re-torqued after 500 miles, and you abused them well before the re-torque interval. You clearly admitted to not re-torquing, and they failed. So again, you didn't install them properly, and they didn't work correctly. You could have re-torqued them before 500 miles, knowing that you were going to beat on the engine at 20+psi. They obviously lost their preload before you beat on the engine, which is why they stretched. If you damage a 200ksi head stud, chances are good that something hasn't been done properly.

I can't really see how the head studs are at fault at all.

Someone will probably say that Golden Eagle studs are better or whatever, but both the GE and ARP studs are made from 8740 chrome moly with almost identical post-heat treat UTS. So there isn't going to be any significant difference between the two brands, and they're both excellent products. Maybe people who use GE head studs pay better attention to the installation process, and many more people use ARP studs so there are a lot more people who don't follow proper procedure?

RandomTask

Rephrase - cylinder wall temps. But w/e. You guys are missing my point. If you can say block guards don't have any effect on the cooling, then you should be able to run nothing but block gaurds all the way down the sleeve. The fact is they do have some effect. For what he's seeing on his motor, for the street, you're right, it wouldn't cause it. I've already admitted that.

Ramney - for the sake of the thread, you're right.

Also, heads lifting? @17psi? Biggest fail I've seen on ARP studs is the nuts walking off. Fairly certain this was related to improper installation.

Still think its in the tune/leaning out. OP, again, have you pulled your AFR?

mike nagz

his car was done right. trust me i know.

i dont think arp as a company sucks, i think their headstuds are garbage after the first time they are retorqued.

if the company themselves says if you have taken the head off more than 2 times then you need to buy a new set, when there are companys like golden eagle who dont have that issue running around.... then you need to step your game up as a business. yes i use their rod bolts etc etc. but that doesnt change the fact that their headstuds are NOTORIOUS for stretching.... and the stretching being the cause of MANYYYYYY blown headgaksets, cracked sleeves etc etc.

RameyBuilt

at 55 pounds they do stretch, its not a bandwagon thing, its more like it happens on high hp race cars so it tricked down to the street world, im only referring to the b-series stuff, if u compare a arp to a golden eagle u can physical see the difference

and golden eagle and arp are not made of the same stuff or by the same people im got to find it again online, but we talked about this at pri a few weeks ago

NasTHatch

ARP is 8740 steel and GE's are 4340 Steel

there was a thread not to long ago about this, and my friend Pete mentioned this and said to run the GE's because they were better and Fabrik8 jumps all over him about it, and Jarrod mentioned that he had no idea what he was talking about as well, until he proved them wrong.

https://www.vadriven.com/forums/show...ghlight=larger

Read it and have a laugh

Audio

Fabrik8 will jump all over anybody with his "logic"

But its okay, he knows everything. So if someone goes wrong its operator error, never the product or company. I know I have seen the studs lift on more applications than Im sure he has ever used them for so its honestly whatever.

SortaFlush

+1

I speak on personal experience, not Honda-tech hearsay.

Fabrik8

I took a quick look at GE's site last night and they have the studs listed as being 8740 or 8640, so that's what I went with. If they're 4340, fine, but I was just going off of their web site.

I just re-read that other thread (from January), and realized that everyone completely neglected the fact that the stud size has nothing to do with the unthreaded diameter. The only thing that matters is the thread root diameter, which is identical for both brands of studs. The ARP is roughly the same unthreaded diameter as the thread root diameter, and the GE has a larger unthreaded diameter than the thread root diameter. This means that the GE is larger than it has to be because it's always going to fail at the threaded portion of the stud. My point is that the unthreaded diameter doesn't matter at all. I don't know why I didn't see that before.

I guess my whole problem with this argument is the statistics of it. If you look at the amount of studs that ARP sells versus the amount of studs GE sells, ARP sells many, many times more. Say ARP sells 100000 studs, and has 1000 failures. GE sells 1000 studs, and has 10 failures. Does this mean that ARP has 100 times greater failure rate than GE? No, the failure rate is exactly the same. The number of failures is 100 times greater, because the number sold is 100 times greater.
Anyway, I don't really take "I've seen more ARP problems than anything else" (or statements like that) very seriously, because there are a lot of other factors to consider.

It just sounds like everyone is saying that ARP is crap, which they aren't. They may not make their best products for aftermarket Honda use (8740 isn't that great, but neither is 4340) but they're one of the best fastener companies in the world. I don't see Formula1 designers saying "boy, this ARP stuff is crap, let's get Golden Eagle stuff instead"...

I respect everyone's opinion, so don't think I'm attacking everyone. I'm not much of a 'take it at face value' type of person, as you've probably noticed. I'm also not right all the time, I'm just stubborn. I'm wrong a lot, but sometimes my arguments are more convincing. LOL...