Redline Time Attack - Summit Point, WV September 29th-30th
10-05-2007, 12:59 PM
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Re: Redline Time Attack - Summit Point, WV September 29th-30th
is the classing wrong?? not necessarily. but the fact is if alot of people are going to be placed into "UNLIMITED" class, and have no chance of winning, then they probably won't run there cars.
sure they may win Unlimited FWD, but a Honda Challenge car would never have a chance against the AWD and RWD unlimited cars.
the fastest FWD car (ptuning TC) at Redline Summit was 14 seconds off the winning Unlimited class time. (porsche) and the ptuning car Ross said put down nearly 300hp. no honda challenge car is in that league. more like 240whp tops
sure they may win Unlimited FWD, but a Honda Challenge car would never have a chance against the AWD and RWD unlimited cars.
the fastest FWD car (ptuning TC) at Redline Summit was 14 seconds off the winning Unlimited class time. (porsche) and the ptuning car Ross said put down nearly 300hp. no honda challenge car is in that league. more like 240whp tops
While the Ptunning car may make 300hp, it probably weighs 1500 lbs more than a H1 car, not to mention the HC cars are very well sorted and those guys know how to set-up their cars.
10-05-2007, 06:01 PM
#52
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Re: Redline Time Attack - Summit Point, WV September 29th-30th
Diversity is good. but the classing for the REDLINE events is pretty much too simple. only real difference between street and modified is the tires. you could have the same engine swaps, forced induction, etc, in either class.
Personally that isn't a logical difference to divide those two classes in my opinion.
Good to see you come out though. our friend Ross drove the Ptuning TC. your XA only makes 133hp turboed? ouch.
my friend steve narrowly missed first in Street Fwd. he was running a stock N/A type r motor.
i'll be out in my car next year. 88 civic hatch. 1.6 turbo. about 275whp. 2000 lbs. i guess it will be Modified class though, cause it will be flared upfront to clear some 275/35/15 Hoosier autocross tires. I guess i could run some 245/45/16 Kumho V700 and battle Ross if he drives the Ptuning car again.
BACK TO MY PREVIOUS COMMENTS:
all i'm saying is that the Redline guy was saying "where are all the Hondas, and Honda Challenge guys"
and i laid out exactly why most Honda Challenge cars wouldn't run. an H4 car has a stock engine. there are very little mods you can do to make HP besides some bolt ons and extensive tuning. and in Honda Challenge trim the cars don't even have any weight advantages.(i.e. an H1 civic with K20 swap has to weigh 2400 lbs. my friends "street car" of the same spec weighs 2100 lbs.)
so his car is much lighter, much faster, and much less "Track safe".
H4 car in Modified class would be running against Turbo'ed and highly built swapped N/A cars. an H4 92 civic Si has to weigh 2200lbs. he would have to compete against my 2000lb turbo'd civic with over twice the HP and nearly 3x the torque. not to mention H4 cars are limited to 7" wide wheels. so most would be running a 225/45/15 Toyo Ra1 at the widest!
if they let all honda challenge cars run in Modified then i think alot more cars would come out. and they really won't have any advantage as they will all be running N/A. and toyo RA1 are not as sticky as a 50 treadwear Victoracer or V700 that anyone else could run in Modified class.
is the classing wrong?? not necessarily. but the fact is if alot of people are going to be placed into "UNLIMITED" class, and have no chance of winning, then they probably won't run there cars.
sure they may win Unlimited FWD, but a Honda Challenge car would never have a chance against the AWD and RWD unlimited cars.
the fastest FWD car (ptuning TC) at Redline Summit was 14 seconds off the winning Unlimited class time. (porsche) and the ptuning car Ross said put down nearly 300hp. no honda challenge car is in that league. more like 240whp tops
Personally that isn't a logical difference to divide those two classes in my opinion.
Good to see you come out though. our friend Ross drove the Ptuning TC. your XA only makes 133hp turboed? ouch.
my friend steve narrowly missed first in Street Fwd. he was running a stock N/A type r motor.
i'll be out in my car next year. 88 civic hatch. 1.6 turbo. about 275whp. 2000 lbs. i guess it will be Modified class though, cause it will be flared upfront to clear some 275/35/15 Hoosier autocross tires. I guess i could run some 245/45/16 Kumho V700 and battle Ross if he drives the Ptuning car again.
BACK TO MY PREVIOUS COMMENTS:
all i'm saying is that the Redline guy was saying "where are all the Hondas, and Honda Challenge guys"
and i laid out exactly why most Honda Challenge cars wouldn't run. an H4 car has a stock engine. there are very little mods you can do to make HP besides some bolt ons and extensive tuning. and in Honda Challenge trim the cars don't even have any weight advantages.(i.e. an H1 civic with K20 swap has to weigh 2400 lbs. my friends "street car" of the same spec weighs 2100 lbs.)
so his car is much lighter, much faster, and much less "Track safe".
H4 car in Modified class would be running against Turbo'ed and highly built swapped N/A cars. an H4 92 civic Si has to weigh 2200lbs. he would have to compete against my 2000lb turbo'd civic with over twice the HP and nearly 3x the torque. not to mention H4 cars are limited to 7" wide wheels. so most would be running a 225/45/15 Toyo Ra1 at the widest!
if they let all honda challenge cars run in Modified then i think alot more cars would come out. and they really won't have any advantage as they will all be running N/A. and toyo RA1 are not as sticky as a 50 treadwear Victoracer or V700 that anyone else could run in Modified class.
is the classing wrong?? not necessarily. but the fact is if alot of people are going to be placed into "UNLIMITED" class, and have no chance of winning, then they probably won't run there cars.
sure they may win Unlimited FWD, but a Honda Challenge car would never have a chance against the AWD and RWD unlimited cars.
the fastest FWD car (ptuning TC) at Redline Summit was 14 seconds off the winning Unlimited class time. (porsche) and the ptuning car Ross said put down nearly 300hp. no honda challenge car is in that league. more like 240whp tops
Yea more fwd cars need to compete next year!
10-06-2007, 06:47 AM
#53
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Re: Redline Time Attack - Summit Point, WV September 29th-30th
WOW this is almost becoming laughable.... Do you guys not see the forest from the trees. The HC guys didn't show because um I dont Know its the end of the year and a lot of them just made the very long and expensive haul out to Nationals just like 3 weeks ago. These guys aren't millionaires they are privateers that drive Honda's. And who are any of you to tell people what they should run... Jesus if you want to see more FWD cars build one for your self if you need someone to run against build two and have a friend drive it. Also you guys have to figure that the rule sets are WIDE open as they are to attract new blood into the sport not move guys who are already on track from one organization to another. NASA keeps their NASAX and TT rules (both point systems and yes both more structured that RedLine) almost the same way. Both are unlike the SCCA rule sets that are very regulated.
Its great that you guys are digging this type of motor-sports and for it to grow you guys need to not bitch about the rules and lack of cars that you want to see. And just remember that HPDE, track days, and TT is all very very new, and some things are not perfect but Rome was not built in a day.
Its great that you guys are digging this type of motor-sports and for it to grow you guys need to not bitch about the rules and lack of cars that you want to see. And just remember that HPDE, track days, and TT is all very very new, and some things are not perfect but Rome was not built in a day.
10-22-2007, 04:28 PM
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Re: Redline Time Attack - Summit Point, WV September 29th-30th
thought some may enjoy this. It is an in-car video (from inside my bubble car), first practice session all weekend, the s2000 was street class and the 350z was mod class. twas a fun chase
http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g5...7-VID00006.flv
http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g5...7-VID00006.flv
10-22-2007, 05:13 PM
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Re: Redline Time Attack - Summit Point, WV September 29th-30th
I actually did run an HC car on Saturday's practice session.
Why didn't I compete on Sunday? Too much money, not a chance in hell of placing with my less than 100whp H5 motor. And of course, the noob behind the wheel.
My car is built for sticky tires - take those away and it's just a slow, stiff Honda.
The ideal car for this particular event would have been a K-swapped H1 car, remove the ballast, set it up to run on 140 treadwear RE-01R's or something like that. Maybe not mop up street class, but at least have a chance against the FI cars.
Why didn't I compete on Sunday? Too much money, not a chance in hell of placing with my less than 100whp H5 motor. And of course, the noob behind the wheel.
My car is built for sticky tires - take those away and it's just a slow, stiff Honda.
The ideal car for this particular event would have been a K-swapped H1 car, remove the ballast, set it up to run on 140 treadwear RE-01R's or something like that. Maybe not mop up street class, but at least have a chance against the FI cars.
10-22-2007, 05:17 PM
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Re: Redline Time Attack - Summit Point, WV September 29th-30th
Complete off topic, but Jason, the other weekend at SP I noticed you were having some mechanical issues...everything alright? It looked like you blew up on Saturday, but then I saw you back on track Sunday...?
10-22-2007, 06:17 PM
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Re: Redline Time Attack - Summit Point, WV September 29th-30th
I'm having some extreme crankcase pressures, that caused oil to seep from everywhere. Dipstick, oil fill, around the cam cover, etc.
Cleaned it up a bit on Sunday, and ran the crap out of it. I was honestly hoping to pop the motor, but it wasn't to be.
At this point, I need to do a leakdown. My current hypothesis is this:
Motor is pretty fresh.
Motor never had PCV hooked up until I got the car.
Rings never sat.
On Shenandoah, you are never at full throttle for more than....30 seconds?
On Main Course, I'm at most/full throttle from T5-T10. All this WOT causes extreme crankcase pressure from all the blow by, oil comes out everywhere.
:shrug
So a leakdown is at the top of the list. Pending the anticipated bad results, it's a decision to either swap in my fresh (but stock) motor, or re-ring the IT built motor in the car.
Thanks for the concern Kevin - as soon as this hoe is sorted, I WILL be on the rollers. Gonna need all the HP I can get for VIR next year
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