Cycle whore thread
#9011
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Well I just got it and the plug was dark as fuck. I'm assuming it's running very rich due to that. I understand the bike can bog down due to excessive fuel but as it sits now I'm running no filter (lots of air) and it still bogs. The jet looks damn near clogged because of the damage too. It's just all Chinese to me at the moment because it's so new to me. I'm doing a lot of reading and research.
#9012
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Well I just got it and the plug was dark as fuck. I'm assuming it's running very rich due to that. I understand the bike can bog down due to excessive fuel but as it sits now I'm running no filter (lots of air) and it still bogs. The jet looks damn near clogged because of the damage too. It's just all Chinese to me at the moment because it's so new to me. I'm doing a lot of reading and research.
you have to take a reading from a clean plug.
get some new plugs. NGK for the win.
Champions are easier to read but the NGK's will perform better
You can take a plug reading at wide open throttle. Accelerate over a long distance (preferably uphill) getting into final gear and keeping throttle fully open. When fully tapped out, grab the clutch and hit the kill switch. The motor should stop immediately, then look at the plug. Should be tan, but not too dark.
#9013
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well the plug is probably dark because it's been run for a while.
you have to take a reading from a clean plug.
get some new plugs. NGK for the win.
Champions are easier to read but the NGK's will perform better
You can take a plug reading at wide open throttle. Accelerate over a long distance (preferably uphill) getting into final gear and keeping throttle fully open. When fully tapped out, grab the clutch and hit the kill switch. The motor should stop immediately, then look at the plug. Should be tan, but not too dark.
you have to take a reading from a clean plug.
get some new plugs. NGK for the win.
Champions are easier to read but the NGK's will perform better
You can take a plug reading at wide open throttle. Accelerate over a long distance (preferably uphill) getting into final gear and keeping throttle fully open. When fully tapped out, grab the clutch and hit the kill switch. The motor should stop immediately, then look at the plug. Should be tan, but not too dark.
Problem with getting a reading is it will not go to wide open. Even in 3rd gear I can only go like half throttle if that.
#9014
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well first clean your carb.
be sure that everything is good to go by spraying carb cleaner through it and blasting it with piss... i mean air.
I sanded down the straw that came with the spray can so it would fit tight in the jets and so I could be sure the cleaner was going THROUGH not just splashing back out. you might need to poke a piece of wire through there if things are really clogged.
then find out what your stock jet size is and order that plus the next 2 smaller sizes and the next 2 larger sizes.
see if you can get stock specs on your carb like air mix screw settings and so on.
as far as diagnosing the bogging...
and as far as fixing it...
be sure that everything is good to go by spraying carb cleaner through it and blasting it with piss... i mean air.
I sanded down the straw that came with the spray can so it would fit tight in the jets and so I could be sure the cleaner was going THROUGH not just splashing back out. you might need to poke a piece of wire through there if things are really clogged.
then find out what your stock jet size is and order that plus the next 2 smaller sizes and the next 2 larger sizes.
see if you can get stock specs on your carb like air mix screw settings and so on.
as far as diagnosing the bogging...
>>>Typical lean conditions:
* Poor acceleration - feels flat
Engine doesn't respond when throttle is snapped open - picks up speed as throttle is closed
Engine runs hot, knocks, pings and overheats (end result- hole in piston)
Engine surges or "hunts" when cruising at part throttle
Popping/ spitting through carb when throttle is opened, or popping and spitting through pipe on acceleration with a closed throttle (classic lean pilot circuit symptoms)
Engine runs better in warm weather, worse in cool
Performance gets worse when the air filter is removed
>>>Typical Rich Conditions
* Acceleration is flat, uneven
Engine will "8 stroke" as it loads up and skips combustion cycles
Throttle needs to be opened continuously to maintain acceleration
Engine works better when cold
Black smoke from the tail pipe
Poor fuel economy
Engine performance improves when air cleaner is removed
If the pilot screw is overly rich, idle is rough and the engine won't return to idle without blipping the throttle
Black sooty plugs, sooty exhaust pipe
* Poor acceleration - feels flat
Engine doesn't respond when throttle is snapped open - picks up speed as throttle is closed
Engine runs hot, knocks, pings and overheats (end result- hole in piston)
Engine surges or "hunts" when cruising at part throttle
Popping/ spitting through carb when throttle is opened, or popping and spitting through pipe on acceleration with a closed throttle (classic lean pilot circuit symptoms)
Engine runs better in warm weather, worse in cool
Performance gets worse when the air filter is removed
>>>Typical Rich Conditions
* Acceleration is flat, uneven
Engine will "8 stroke" as it loads up and skips combustion cycles
Throttle needs to be opened continuously to maintain acceleration
Engine works better when cold
Black smoke from the tail pipe
Poor fuel economy
Engine performance improves when air cleaner is removed
If the pilot screw is overly rich, idle is rough and the engine won't return to idle without blipping the throttle
Black sooty plugs, sooty exhaust pipe
How do I diagnose faults "on the fly"
When you are limited to street riding, take note on how easily and quickly the engine reaches the proper RPM for shifting gears. The engine should accelerate smoothly and quickly through all gears. When the main jetting is to rich, the engine will feel sluggish and acceleration will 'feel' slow. You can check the main jet by quickly closing the throttle from wide open to 7/8 position when the engine's RPM is greater than 4500. If the engine accelerates slightly, the main jet is to lean. A larger main jet is needed. If the engine hesitates or misses slightly, the main jet is to rich. A smaller main jet is needed. If the engine just slows a slight amount, the jetting is very close to correct.
Another test is to accelerate through the gears at full throttle. If the engine backfires through the carburetor, misses, cuts out or quits running, the main jet is lean. Increase the size of the main jet. If the engine acceleration seems sluggish, does not react to the throttle or sounds flat, the main jet is rich. Decrease the size of the main jet. The main jetting can be set quickly at a 1/4 mile drag strip. For this test, you can ignore the ET (elapsed time). Making sure the engine is warmed up, make your run down the strip making note of your final MPH. Keep increasing the size of the main jet until MPH begins to drop. Then drop back one jet size. Your jetting should now be correct.
To determine if the bike is lean (to little fuel for the amount of air reaching the engine through the carburetor) at any given throttle opening, partially cover the air-filter intake with a piece of duct tape; if the carburetion improves, it's running lean. If you suspect the bike is running rich (too much fuel in the air-fuel mixture)), remove the airbox top or the air cleaner element; if the changes are for the better, the bike was running too rich. If your bike is equipped with a manual fuel shut-off (or you're clever enough to disconnect and plug the fuel lines), take the bike for a ride with the fuel turned off. If it runs worse as the float bowl drains, it's lean. If it gets better, it's rich. If you rev the bike and the revs hang up after closing the throttle this = Lean; if the revs dip down then come back up = rich.
How do I adjust the carb?
The backfiring indicates air/fuel mixture or pilot jet leaness. I'd start, as you correctly stated with the idling mixture as it's the easiest and cheapest. Remember there's another carb under your tank which you'll also have to do. Manufacturers specs are normally one and a half turns out from the slightly seated position - don't force the screw it's got a taper on the screw you're turning as well as in the carb. Start the engine and get it to working temp. Light a cigarette or whatever you smoke as you'll be busy from here on. You'll be letting the engine run for a while so do it outside where there's air circulation or put a fan on the engine and put the beers within reach. Adjust the idling speed to the spec or to where you can hear it's running at a constant speed (the idling speed is adjusted by hand by turning the brass screw with the spring on it sticking out of the back of the rear carb). Now turn the pilot screw out one quarter from the manufacturers spec. If the engine speed drops, return the screw to where it was and turn it in one quarter. If the engine speed drops, you're OK (and I'm OK). Drink the beer.
Don't go for a test ride after the beer. If the engine speed increases as you turn the screw out, keep going until you reach the point of max RPM. If it takes more than 3 turns for the engine speed to level off, the pilot jet is too large. Install a leaner one. This will probably not be your scenario. If the engine speed increases as you turn the screw in, keep going until it levels off. If the pilot screw ends up less than half a turn open, the pilot jet is too small.Trick : When you've found the peak idle speed, turn the mixture screw in one quarter turn. If it doesn't change the idle speed leave it there. If it does drop, return it to the last setting.
When you are limited to street riding, take note on how easily and quickly the engine reaches the proper RPM for shifting gears. The engine should accelerate smoothly and quickly through all gears. When the main jetting is to rich, the engine will feel sluggish and acceleration will 'feel' slow. You can check the main jet by quickly closing the throttle from wide open to 7/8 position when the engine's RPM is greater than 4500. If the engine accelerates slightly, the main jet is to lean. A larger main jet is needed. If the engine hesitates or misses slightly, the main jet is to rich. A smaller main jet is needed. If the engine just slows a slight amount, the jetting is very close to correct.
Another test is to accelerate through the gears at full throttle. If the engine backfires through the carburetor, misses, cuts out or quits running, the main jet is lean. Increase the size of the main jet. If the engine acceleration seems sluggish, does not react to the throttle or sounds flat, the main jet is rich. Decrease the size of the main jet. The main jetting can be set quickly at a 1/4 mile drag strip. For this test, you can ignore the ET (elapsed time). Making sure the engine is warmed up, make your run down the strip making note of your final MPH. Keep increasing the size of the main jet until MPH begins to drop. Then drop back one jet size. Your jetting should now be correct.
To determine if the bike is lean (to little fuel for the amount of air reaching the engine through the carburetor) at any given throttle opening, partially cover the air-filter intake with a piece of duct tape; if the carburetion improves, it's running lean. If you suspect the bike is running rich (too much fuel in the air-fuel mixture)), remove the airbox top or the air cleaner element; if the changes are for the better, the bike was running too rich. If your bike is equipped with a manual fuel shut-off (or you're clever enough to disconnect and plug the fuel lines), take the bike for a ride with the fuel turned off. If it runs worse as the float bowl drains, it's lean. If it gets better, it's rich. If you rev the bike and the revs hang up after closing the throttle this = Lean; if the revs dip down then come back up = rich.
How do I adjust the carb?
The backfiring indicates air/fuel mixture or pilot jet leaness. I'd start, as you correctly stated with the idling mixture as it's the easiest and cheapest. Remember there's another carb under your tank which you'll also have to do. Manufacturers specs are normally one and a half turns out from the slightly seated position - don't force the screw it's got a taper on the screw you're turning as well as in the carb. Start the engine and get it to working temp. Light a cigarette or whatever you smoke as you'll be busy from here on. You'll be letting the engine run for a while so do it outside where there's air circulation or put a fan on the engine and put the beers within reach. Adjust the idling speed to the spec or to where you can hear it's running at a constant speed (the idling speed is adjusted by hand by turning the brass screw with the spring on it sticking out of the back of the rear carb). Now turn the pilot screw out one quarter from the manufacturers spec. If the engine speed drops, return the screw to where it was and turn it in one quarter. If the engine speed drops, you're OK (and I'm OK). Drink the beer.
Don't go for a test ride after the beer. If the engine speed increases as you turn the screw out, keep going until you reach the point of max RPM. If it takes more than 3 turns for the engine speed to level off, the pilot jet is too large. Install a leaner one. This will probably not be your scenario. If the engine speed increases as you turn the screw in, keep going until it levels off. If the pilot screw ends up less than half a turn open, the pilot jet is too small.Trick : When you've found the peak idle speed, turn the mixture screw in one quarter turn. If it doesn't change the idle speed leave it there. If it does drop, return it to the last setting.
#9015
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jets are dirt cheap, if you're gonna put a pod (clamp on) filter on it, you''re gonna need to go up a bunch on the main, maybe a step up on the pilot, as those filters flow ALOT more air than the OEM airbox. Find out what the stock jet size is, and swing by sometime, I'll give you a bunch of jets in the range you're gonna probably need.
#9020
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If anyone has an extra/spare full face helmet they want to part with for a decent price, I need one. Size L or XL depending on the brand.