and that guy is ripping you off if you follow your thought process on this cause he is taking a repair job that costs about 3 dollars in materials and 20 minutes in time and charging you 150 bucks to fix it.

There is a FET in the modules that fries, its the control relay for the pump. it is a VERY common failure in all Kelsey Hayes brake systems in use in GM and Ford vehicles, I fix them for my customers in house for about the same price. The GM units are way overpriced, but the fact is there are many people that do not know how to repair them inexpensively (and I may add, a better repair than OE, cause its a higher amperage FET that is installed) or feel that the OE replacement is the best way to go. Add to the fact that when you install a new EBCM, it has to be programmed (another hour of labor straight to the Service Department!) with the vehicle information. Oh thats right...its a ripoff that they charge an hour time for something that takes ten minutes, I forgot. That Tech II didnt cost them anything (4200 bucks plus 1250/yr in Tis2Web subscription for software updates).

I guess the people that order the parts from GM, unload the trucks, stock the shelves, pull the parts and pack them for shipping are free? in addition to the cost of the electricity for the warehouse, telephone lines, internet, packing materials, and shipping costs are not a valid overhead line item for this business?

Cause if so...I want to hire every one of them lol. Even if the GM dealer you are referring to was able to pander off the costs of this side operation, it would have to be offset by another revenue source. Wonder which one that will be? Yup. Their SERVICE DEPARTMENT.

I agree that someone is likely inflating the amounts, or there is a something that is not being told to either the service writer or the customer.

 

Skim reading led me to believe people still don't do their oil changes themselves and once old people die their won't be any business in dealerships?

 

For the record I do understand that tech's should get paid more than the actual time it takes them to do the work... that's the benefit of being good/fast. It's the same in body repair and when I was an insurance adjuster I was trained to write average repair times on estimates. Meaning if I give you 4 hours to fix a dent and you can do it correctly in 1 then good on you. However, if you're a newb and slow and it takes you 6 that doesn't mean i owe you 6 hours of labor... it's your fault you suck

You guys may be right... CTS-V owner could have been exaggerating. Thanks for posting the acutal book time etc. I wonder what the proper OEM procedure is for doing the water pump install? As you pro-wrenches know there are many times you can ignore operations on the mfg repair instructions and save major time.

Hateful mechanic... very cool that you know about the EBCM fix etc. etc.

 

Ask and you shall receive. The picture's repeat themselve's so I stopped posting them.

1.Remove the air cleaner outlet duct.
2.Drain the cooling system.
3.Remove the cooling fan assembly.
4.Remove the accessory drive belt.
5.Reposition the inlet and outlet hose clamps at the water pump.
6.Remove the inlet and outlet hoses from the water pump.

7.Reposition the heater inlet and surge tank outlet hose clamps at the water pump.
8.Remove the heater inlet and surge tank outlet hoses from the water pump.

9.Remove the water pump bolts.

10.Remove the water pump.
11.Remove the water pump gaskets.
12.Clean and inspect the water pump.

1.Install the water pump and gaskets to the engine block.
2.Notice: Refer to Fastener Notice in Service Precautions. Install the water pump bolts.
1.Tighten the water pump bolts a first pass to 15 Nm (11 ft. lbs.) .
2.Tighten the water pump bolts a final pass to 30 Nm (22 ft. lbs.) .
3.Install the heater inlet and surge tank outlet hoses to the water pump.
4.Position the heater inlet and surge tank outlet hose clamps at the water pump.
5.Install the inlet and outlet hoses to the water pump.
6.Position the inlet and outlet hose clamps at the water pump.
7.Install the accessory drive belt.
8.Install the cooling fan assembly.
9.Fill the cooling system.
10.Install the air cleaner outlet duct.

 

I am curious to see what if any reasons there is for the lack of competition. What Im saying is you would think in a free market that there would be more people than just ourselves seeing the opportunity to step in and undercut the dealer, thus making a profit and gaining share of the market. Then again, looking at what I said that is exactly what independent garages do. I think that many consumers do not educate themselves about their vehicle leaving themselves vulnerable to being taken advantage of by the service rep or dealer as whole. Basically the ignorance of many consumers ensures that there is not enough pressure applied to the market in order to force the price of parts and service lower.

 

There are so many ways to buy parts/service outside of dealerships. It's not consumer ignorance, it's service. Many people want to take their car to a trusted, safe, knowledgeable place that specifies in their type of car. They know they will pay more, and they are okay with that as long as they are treated right and their car is as well. You can get a double cheeseburger at mcdonalds for a buck, but if you can afford it, I'm sure you'd rather go to a real restaurant and be served a real burger for a few dollars more.

 

I do understand what you are saying and to a certain extant I agree in fact. I was mostly referring to the lack of downward pressure on the automotive service market. I do believe that OEM parts are sold at high prices, indeed in many cases I have found OEM parts incredibly cheaper than dealership mark up prices. I have also believe that the way hours of labor are currently charged encourages mechanics to emphasize speed over quality of work. I am not saying that there aren't a lot of high quality mechanics out there that do great work, but I believe that a guy who can do ten shitty jobs in the time it takes another guy to do 5 good ones is going to be the one doing better. I have had a lot of issues with terrible work, and terrible service from dealers all while being charged exorbitant prices for parts and labor.

The truth is its not easy to find a good mechanic be it a dealer or independent operation, and many are out there to get every dime they can without care of your future patronage. On that same note a lot of the time consumers treat there cars like magic chariots that do not need maintenance until they do not work.

 

I feel you, that is why dealerships, or any business, loses customers. Don't get me wrong, I don't take my cars to the dealership for service either, simply because I like to do most of my own maintenance, and one of my techs hooks me up anyway. If I didn't have that benefit tho, and I could afford to, then I would as long as shit was done right and I was treated fair. I completely understand why people go to indpendant shops or chains tho. I just took a service manager position at a nationwide chain, in fact, so I hope they continue to do so! lolol

My point is that I do understand why dealerships are higher, and if they cut their prices they def. wouldn't make more revenue, being as they have the same bottom line and I don't see where it would draw very many new customers, being as most already have the "stealership" mindset to begin with.

 

That is similar to what I am saying , basically that there are enough customers that utilize the dealership that are willing to pay the rate vs ones who will not pay that much. So there is not enough pressure on the dealership to cut the rates. Its really a fancy way of saying they do it because they can, because there are enough people willing to pay.

On an unrelated note, it would be interesting to see what your impressions are of the independent side if you do indeed go that rout. I am curious to see the difference in everything from the customer base, to the owner/management ethos, to the relationship with suppliers.

 

Oh, well fuck, lol. I just got my first cup of coffee