Virginia Beach noise ordinance is ruled unconstitutional
#21
Re: Virginia Beach noise ordinance is ruled unconstitutional
I know that, just being devils advocate for a bit. Personally I think that the laws concerned with modifying your vehicle should be somewhat relaxed. Virginia law basically states that anything not installed on your vehicle by the manufacturer is not authorized. As well, the vehicle laws are enforced somewhat unevenly. I'm not saying there should be a free pass to run open pipes down the street but there is no reason that every little fagot assed Aveo with an annoying buzz should get pulled over, while fucking Dually Diesels roll by with five inch exhausts sticking straight through the bed and pointing in the air. I like the idea of a decibel limit, but it should be the responsibility of the owner to get it tested. A decibel check might be a good addition to the state inspection perhaps. Or just something your required to get done at a shop with a calibrated tester so you can have a little slip of paper or something.
Last edited by R. Danneskjöld; 04-20-2009 at 03:28 AM.
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Re: Virginia Beach noise ordinance is ruled unconstitutional
He is understanding your point. You are saying the constitution is cut and dry, which it is not. If it were cut and dry, problems like this wouldn't arise. Having a committee to check every law and every action of the government to make sure it is constitutional would take forever. The government already takes long enough to get shit done. The courts are there to decide if something is Constitutional or not when a problem arises with it. The government can't do everything, and if people feel that something is not right, they are encouraged to speak up. If you feel a law is unconstitutional, you have every right to try to fight it. Government can't do everything for the people.
having a constitutional committee wouldnt make anything take longer in the legal process, so what are you talking about? we are talking about the legislative process, and i dont care how long it takes to make a new law. if its a dumb and/or unconstitutional law, i'm happy with it taking forever literally to get passed. its amazing that you dont feel the same.
the only courts that care directly about constitutionality is the federal and supreme court of the us. the other courts are concerned only about the laws taht are in place. if you read the article, you would know that the case was appealed all the way to federal court. courts care about upholding the laws that are currently in place, and generating revenue for the government.
yorue totally right, govt cant do everything FOR the people, but they are constantly working to do things AGAINST the people.
so sorry if i disagree with you, but the govt needs a major overhaul and it will likely have to start in the legislative.
It has 7 articles and 27 amendments. Considering that you are such a fan of the Constitution and didn't know that, I hardly expect the janitor down at the mayor's office would be able to gauge whether or not that latest development project is infringing on someone's constitutional rights or not.
Actually, I'm injecting what is called "reality" into a utopian argument.
um... whats your solution again?
#23
Re: Virginia Beach noise ordinance is ruled unconstitutional
so youre saying you have no understanding about how committees are assembled in government i take it? committees are assembled from members of the governing body... ie existing councilmen or congressmen. so again... not rocket science. and even if they had to hire 2 or 3 independent professionals like lawyers etc, it would still save us a shitload of money in the long run. but seeing your logic i can see how you cant understand the concept of that.
I like the process that's already laid out in the Constitution. It's called a judicial system. It's setup for determining what laws are constitutional and what aren't.
You would rather have ridiculous redundancy and, in the end, larger government.
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Re: Virginia Beach noise ordinance is ruled unconstitutional
Creating a government committee is, by definition, making a larger government. Period.
I like the process that's already laid out in the Constitution. It's called a judicial system. It's setup for determining what laws are constitutional and what aren't.
You would rather have ridiculous redundancy and, in the end, larger government.
I like the process that's already laid out in the Constitution. It's called a judicial system. It's setup for determining what laws are constitutional and what aren't.
You would rather have ridiculous redundancy and, in the end, larger government.
you solution does nothing to confront the problem of unconstitutional laws.
in my previous statements i have said several times that the judicial system does not work. the judicial system does not legislate, they enforce. thats why we have people charged and convicted of laws that common sense says are unconstitutional all the time.
thats why they say the legal system is legal not logical.
we need a system that prevents these bogus laws from getting through. so again... i ask you what's your solution to the overwhelming problem of unconstitutional laws?
#25
Re: Virginia Beach noise ordinance is ruled unconstitutional
you cant make up your own definition. if you make a committee of existing members how is that making government bigger?
you solution does nothing to confront the problem of unconstitutional laws.
in my previous statements i have said several times that the judicial system does not work. the judicial system does not legislate, they enforce. thats why we have people charged and convicted of laws that common sense says are unconstitutional all the time.
thats why they say the legal system is legal not logical.
we need a system that prevents these bogus laws from getting through. so again... i ask you what's your solution to the overwhelming problem of unconstitutional laws?
you solution does nothing to confront the problem of unconstitutional laws.
in my previous statements i have said several times that the judicial system does not work. the judicial system does not legislate, they enforce. thats why we have people charged and convicted of laws that common sense says are unconstitutional all the time.
thats why they say the legal system is legal not logical.
we need a system that prevents these bogus laws from getting through. so again... i ask you what's your solution to the overwhelming problem of unconstitutional laws?
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Re: Virginia Beach noise ordinance is ruled unconstitutional
ur system wasted that money.
#27
Re: Virginia Beach noise ordinance is ruled unconstitutional
What color is the sky in your world?
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Re: Virginia Beach noise ordinance is ruled unconstitutional
Actually, my system is the one that the Founding Fathers setup. You think the Constitution is flawed, but you want to make the legislative branch into the judicial branch so that they can find out what's constitutional or not? Not only is your proposal trying to expand government, it's also unconstitutional - the judicial branch is just for that. You want politicians to pass judgment on their own laws and expect them to be impartial AND you don't think that they will waste money?
What color is the sky in your world?
What color is the sky in your world?
actually, im saying the constitution is almost perfect, unfortunately, our lawmakers dont use it. my proposal would actually shrink government and streamline the judicial and law enforcement system making a smaller government and saving the taxpayers an infinite amount of money long term
just admit that you dont know what the job of the judicial branch is
The Judicial Process
Article III of the Constitution of the United States guarantees that every person accused of wrongdoing has the right to a fair trial before a competent judge and a jury of one's peers.
The Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth Amendments to the Constitution provide additional protections for those accused of a crime. These include:
A guarantee that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without the due process of law
Protection against being tried for the same crime twice ("double jeopardy")
The right to a speedy trial by an impartial jury
The right to cross-examine witnesses, and to call witnesses to support their case
The right to legal representation
The right to avoid self-incrimination
Protection from excessive bail, excessive fines, and cruel and unusual punishments
Article III of the Constitution of the United States guarantees that every person accused of wrongdoing has the right to a fair trial before a competent judge and a jury of one's peers.
The Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth Amendments to the Constitution provide additional protections for those accused of a crime. These include:
A guarantee that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without the due process of law
Protection against being tried for the same crime twice ("double jeopardy")
The right to a speedy trial by an impartial jury
The right to cross-examine witnesses, and to call witnesses to support their case
The right to legal representation
The right to avoid self-incrimination
Protection from excessive bail, excessive fines, and cruel and unusual punishments
ask a judge or a cop... they will tell you,they dont make the laws, they just enforce them. the legal/judicial system is there to judge PEOPLE with regard to laws that are already in place, they dont judge LAWS by definition. thats why laws passed do not go though the judiciary. sometimes we get lucky and we get a person that steps up and fights a dumb law, but thats one in a million.
my point is that our LEGISLATIVE system is putting the cart before the horse by leaving it up to the court to find a law unconstitutional. your point is that legislators dont have to use the constitution as a reference before creating laws and you like it that way.
interesting
#29
Re: Virginia Beach noise ordinance is ruled unconstitutional
I'm a constitutionalist as well. Its completely constitutional to shoot and kill a fleeing dangerous felon. However, Virginia law does not permit it nor do any of the policies implimented by the police departments here in VA give an officer the full authority of enforcement of the constitution. If officers could enforce law based on the constitution there would be a lot more people being locked up and more convictions without all the state and local hoops to jump through.
Just look at Commonwealth of Virginia v. Moore. Best example of this. Found guilty in circuit court of Portsmouth, over ruled by the Virginia Supreme Court, and ruled by the US supreme court that what the officers did in this case was completely in line with the constitution. Basics, the guy was arrest for driving on a suspended license. Search incident to arrest, a bunch of crack was found, VA supreme court ruled the officers had no right to search Mr. Moore because its an offense which is releasable on a summons. US supreme Court upheld that the officers were completely in the right of searching Mr. Moore after a lawful arrest. There is a lot more to the case but thats just the short and sweet of it.
Last edited by 20vTT; 04-26-2009 at 09:15 AM.
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