I'm not going to quote everything I want to respond to, so I'll keep it simple.

1) The 2009 Camaro will have the new LS3 engine in the base V8. This is confirmed by GM, I don't feel like finding it right now, but a quick search can prove it.

2) For the dude with the long name I don't feel like typing, your analogy makes me giggle, seeing as my Supra weighed 3400 lbs and had too much HP to make up for the weight. SO it's not just the domestics who are guilty of that. Though it's fun to imagine only the most elite cars take weight off the car to make up for lack of horsepower. And the VR-4, and the STi, and the EVO...shall I continue?

3) I am also concerned about GM jumping into the game so late...I can only pray that the gas crisis ends soon, however GM does have a very decent graps on the "active fuel management" technology (turns off half the cylinders when cruising). I feel pretty safe in predicting the car will be capable of 28+ mpg on the highway, and would venture to hope for 32+ out of a 6-speed.

4) I was under the impression that Dodge had released confirmation of the 4,100 lbs car, but I don't follow it too closely.

5)I literally LOL'd on the coment of the GT500. So you're saying that GM and Dodge need to hurry up and slap body kits and a huge mark-up for a stock basemodel V8 in order to compete? Doubtful. Of course I'm being sarcastic to a degree, but honestly what does the GT500 offer besides looks? Everything I've heard about the car is that it's completely overrated and way overpriced for what you get.

 

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=121028

Very interesting article showcasing something the guys at GMMP are toying with. GMMP is GM's performance people. Definitely some note-worthy quotes in there that strike the imagination a bit.

 

damn, that shit is hot

 

I didn't think 40 grand for 12.2 @ 117 quarters, 500BHP, 14" brakes and better driving dynamics than a Terminator is overrated or overpriced. Not to mention, the mark-ups are slowly hitting the end of the road as more and more people are getting the cars for MSRP now.

Of course you've heard this though... you have selective hearing when it comes to Mustangs.

 

Not sure why it makes you giggle. I never said imports weren't guilty of it as well. Old school muscle cars weighted a lot and had a lot of horsepower. The new pony cars are returning to this formula. True the Challenger and Camaro haven't been released yet, and we can only speculate at the weight, but I doubt they stray too far from this formula, or weigh under 3500 pounds.

Not sure why you felt the need to include VR-4s, STis, and Evos? They're turbocharged, intercooled, AWD, and have four doors (excluding the VR-4), they're supposed to be heavy. Even still, only the VR-4 is comparable to the weight of pony cars, and they don't make those anymore.

 

I included anything that is heavy and powerful. The VR-4 weighs about half a ton MORE than most any of the pony cars did, the Supra weighed in at about 3400 lbs (right around average for the cars you were making your point against), and I truly have no idea what the exact weight of the others are. I'm not sure why the point of how the power is made was brought up, the argument you made was simple....that pony cars were just heavy cars with high horsepower. My point was that more than just pony cars are guilty of that.

XCLER8 I'm not going to act like I'm NOT biased towards GM, don't get me wrong...but I was just going off what I had read thus far from testing. I don't know anyone personally that can give me an account of it, so you are correct, I am probably not a fair voice for the GT500....just my opinion off the reviews I had read here and there.

 

Neither you, or I know how much they're going to weigh, but I guarantee they'll weigh more than 3400. Not sure how you considered that right around average when the last and current generation of each car I mentioned weigh more than 3400.

Obviously I'm going to bring up points against domestic pony cars, that's what this fucking thread is about.

 

Lawlz!

 

my evo and challenger weigh almost exactly the same
oh wait, that's not good

 

Somehow I missed this. No it's not, the G8 will be a RWD V8 4-door. That sounds a lot more like a GTO than a FWD V6 Grand Prix.

I also agree that the new ponies will weigh in over 3,400, but I honestly believe the Camaro will at least weigh less than 3,800 for a mildly equipped coupe (and I'd be willing to bet that a barebones factory coupe can weigh less than 3,600)...the convertible will weigh more, and obviously if you start throwing in every option available it's going to start stacking quickly.

By the way, my days of taking shit too seriously are way over...I'm enjoying the discussion, and obviously my first post was to stir the shitpot up...and it's great having the Ford, Dodge, and GM guys in here finally able to discuss our cars like it means something again.

And of course the import guys throwing in their two cents about domestics weighing too much yadda yaddda is a beautiful thing to see again.

I'm just happy to admit that I've done it all, and anyone who knows my vehicle history knows that I have dipped my hands in a bit of everything (except for Dodge, I'm allowed my one sinful bias).