So based on all we've learned in this thread, given a vehicle that is an unleaded fuel only vehicle (as most of us are).... The more ethanol you introduce into said vehicle, the greater your chances are for a noticable difference in behavior...

Straight Gasoline = Vehicle Runs as designed
Straight Ethanol = Vehicle is NOT happy..

Logical?

 

The valve seals don't really come in contact with enough liquid ethanol to be a problem from what I've seen. It's a much bigger problem with things like injector seals that are in constant contact with liquid fuel regardless of whether the engine is running or not. I know GM uses different intake valve seals for the Flex Fuel engines, but that doesn't mean that different seals are necessary for a project car running E85 that won't see a ton of mileage..

It's logical, yes. The practical limit for modern gasoline cars is 10-15% ethanol, and there are issues with anything past that unless the engine management system, etc., is designed to deal with that. That doesn't mean that 10-15% ethanol is bad, just that it may not be dealt with in the most graceful way depending on design. Older cars will have the worst problems, because they might not have been designed for that and also have the least sophisticated engine management compared to newer vehicles.

And, like the OP, if you're running in open loop mode, you're really shooting yourself in the foot because you're removing the ECU's ability to make any compensations whatsoever. Having the ECU say "here's your fuel, hope it's the right amount for you" because you're in open loop mode and then adding ethanol with a different energy density is not the most intelligent thing you can do. Now the ECU says "here's your fuel blend, good luck!"...

 

The thing that gets me about this e10 crap is that it's been shoved down our throats when we already had a perfectly good fuel. Then you add to that that there are guys like me with older cars (closed loop? what loop, there's no O2) and we're told "good luck with this...oh btw your fuel pump, seals, and lines aren't made to withstand it, have a nice life." Then you throw into the mix that the ethanol is added so haphazardly that what one day is e10 might be e8 the next or e15 sold as e10 the day after that.

 

It's just added as an oxygenator to reduce emissions. E85 is more of a targeted replacement for gasoline, so it's not really the same reasons as E10, but most cars should be able to run 10% ethanol with no problems at all except for the tiny power loss (depending on engine management sophistication).

Interestingly, the 15% gasoline in E85 is there to improve cold start performance. Supposedly it's also to denature the ethanol so it can't be used as a beverage, but that can be done with a really tiny amount of all kinds of things so I don't really buy that reasoning.

 

Except it doesn't actually reduce emissions. It reduces CO2 and increases NOx emissions, HC emissions, and evaporative emissions. But don't worry, that small CO2 reduction may have as much as a negligible impact on global warming...the other emissions will give us all cancer so it's well worth increasing those.

 

That's great, but that doesn't change the fact that it's added as an oxygenator to reduce emissions.

 

To believe that, you have to believe the entire legislature combines to have the mental capacity of a jujube. Equally likely is that it's added as an oxygenator to appeal to big agriculture and easily fooled tree-huggers.

 

Argue with the fuel companies, I'm just telling you why it's added.

 

I actually did e-mail a few of them. Most of them didn't respond. Exxon responded saying that they don't like being told how much to use by the government, but didn't say anything beyond that. I actually had a few back and forth e-mails with Chevron, with them telling me the issues that they've been having, how it doesn't have the intended result, and that they spent $2 billion the past 2 years just on the issue of making e10 more old-car-friendly.

 

So im guessing the evo got a tune. Im expecting to see bigger flames then my mr2 now!

There are many mr2's that have run e85 on their stock fuel systems for going on 2-3 years now and not had a problem with corrosion. As of now no shoes dailys his, he may not be on a stock fuel system but the rubber in the system hasnt been change to be E85 compatible.
Its a myth that E85 destroys fuels systems. All that is needed is a tune and MOAR BOOST!


You do get less power for the same amout of e10 or e85 then you do with strait 93 octane. But bump up the fuel pressure and get a tune for e85. The you can run "race gas" for $2.50 all day long. E85 is also a deterrent for detonation. There are many cars ( I only know of mr2's and dsm's in this area) that run on e85 because of its octane rating.

https://www.vadriven.com/forums/show...&highlight=E85

Daily driven 500+ hp 85 car

https://www.vadriven.com/forums/show...&highlight=E85



https://www.vadriven.com/forums/show...&highlight=E85

proof of better power production on the same engine. just more fuel

https://www.vadriven.com/forums/show...&highlight=E85

so yes it's better for performance just not for gas mileage. But if your looking to go fast and are worried about gas mileage, you might want to rethink your choice of a hobby.