Let dealership change your oil if you are in a rush and don't have time, let them change your tires but thats it.

I do all of my work or get a mechanic friend to do work on the side.

Had my clutch replaced in the Jeep for $100 because I didn't have the time to do it myself and my garage has no heat.

 

Yeah there's zero need to remove the cooling fan on a C5/C6 or CTS-V or Camaro. Wonder why they call for that.

 

I have not read the post in it's entirety yet. Here is my input as I have worked for a few independent shops and some Dealerships. For what it is worth and i will use Subaru as an example as i am a Subaru advisor.

There are a lot of things involved in running a service dept.
For Starters, we are required to purchase special tools from Subaru to service cars we sell. These tools actually cost us more than if the average person wanted to buy them(shocking huh?). If we do not have them we can be penalized by the manufacturer and can not perform services and/or warranty repairs on the vehicles. Right now my tool room is around $30,000 worth of tools that we are required to have and purchase and with each year and updated model, we have to buy new tools.

We must send out Technicians out for training. We pay to enroll our technicians so they can be trained by Subaru which typically can cost us $1500-2,000 per technician per class, now times that by 8 or so classes for 3 of our techs. It adds up really fast. If they are not certified, again we can not perform any warranty work on (this is not the case with a performance shop). The dealership incurs all these costs. Also if a technician misses 1 class, he has to retake them all again.

We have a $12,000 laptop that we pay to have updates for so we can perform re-flashes, etc. In addition we pay for tech/software support for our SM3 laptop in case it goes down or brakes. That adds up. I haven't even gone into the other things that we get billed for and is a cost of running a service department. One for example are equipment and lifts. Infact, in 2008 we had to replace 10 of our lifts being they were old and dangerous. At the price of $8-12,000 a piece. Again, all of that adds up and that is why you pay us $75-120 per hour depending on the dealership.

Now you have operating expenses. You have to pay the technician, the writer, the porter, etc. So after you get done paying the staff, you have to pay the bills, plus you have other expenses like insurance and things like that. When it is said and done you have make a profit to stay in business. After all we have a right to make a profit.

Now there is a difference in making a profit and gouging someone. That comes down to the person and their integrity. I am known for sending customers away for certain work because I feel our prices are too high for some things like tires. I also try and keep my prices competitive among other dealerships and i try to be as close to some independent shops as i can. However, they are not using OE parts and fluids and we generally go back over their misdiagnosis and screw-ups. This is not the case all the time though.

Same with goodwill warranty. If the customer is a good service customer, I do what I can for them and cover the repairs. If they haven't seen me in 5 years except for their "free" state inspections, they pay. I am not going to penalize a customer that has paid their dues so to speak because i have no funding to cover the goodwill because i used it all up on customers that have not paid hardly anything. it is a tough balance.



Most of your smaller independent shops typically have less overhead, and do not have certain restrictions from manufacturers applied to them verse a dealership. They may have less people working for them, etc. They tend to charge less.

Then again, we have plenty of customers that come in for a good service experience and the job done right. I am also very personal with my customers and have a great report with them. I guess that is why I am not dead or slow but steady and in some months slammed.

Keep in mind, the fixed operations(service, parts and body shop) pays the bills and keeps the doors open. Sales just attract the customers and helps pay for advertising.

 

URite. I can't speak for any others except for the fundamental business principles. As far as the way they treat their customers personally, I have no experience, I can only say how it should be done, and how we do it.

I know many dealerships treat their customers like shit, that's why many drive an hour or more here for all their service instead of going to their local dealer.

Another point I thought of a while ago, is that customer pay is def. big when it comes to any type of cel, abl, or electronics. Many indys don't have the experience, knowledge, or computers to properly and efficiently diagnose and repair that stuff so people often have no choice but to go to a dealer.

 

^ Nice post... but I get all of that. My whole point is whether or not a dealer could increase business in the customer-pay segment by being more competitive on parts prices and labor times. That's all.

I understand why a dealer will be more expensive than a random garage, but Not 200% more expensive. Now the example in my OP the CTS-V owner could have been exaggerating the service quote. But taking him at his word $990 for a water pump swap is crazy.

 

Very true... when my Z06 was under warranty I'd drive an hour up to Newport News to take it to Mike Arnold at Casey Chevy. He was the only dealer tech who treated me with respect. I got that car when I was 21 so most (read RK chevy) treated me like shit. And when I had an issue and wanted to discuss it they'd blow me off. When I was dealing with my oil consumption issues the service writer tired to tell me that car forums lie and don't know anything. Now I know 100% that forums can over-emphasize issues, but at the end of the day if your customer is technical it's best to fully discuss the issue w/ them.

Mike Arnold kept up to date on the common issues w/ C5s and was always on top of whatever I brought my car to him for. Best example was when I needed the motor re-ringed under warranty for excessive oil consumption.

RK wanted me to pay for an oil change by them so they could mark the drain plug and tape down/mark the dipstick, then come back every 500 miles for 3000 miles for oil checks. Yes this was the GM guide procedure, but it was difficult to do seeing as most don't drive these cars much.

Mike Arnold checked my oil to make sure it was full and told me to come back in about 1000 miles when it was convenient. Sure enough after 9xx miles I was down a quart of oil and he put in for the re-ring.

Anyway... I still won't set foot in RK's service department due to the way the service writer treated me 7+ years ago

 

It doesn't make sense for them to do so. They already have a strong customer base from giving new car buyers incentives to come in for service/maintenance. From there it is up to the service dept to retain them as customers. They get plenty of customer pay work from that and reducing their labor/parts would only reduce their profits, because like I said earlier, people who don't go to dealerships already have that "stealership" mentality anyway and probably wouldn't come unless prices were reduced durastically, which would cause a large profit loss. Dealerships simply don't need to reduce prices, they do okay in service without doing so. It's sales that is fucking us right now. I am losing a lot of money due to having no internal work in the shop from trade ins that it's rediculous.

 

but seriously, they go with inground lifts? mother fuck that was a good amount of cheddar if they werent though.

95% of the indies dont have the tooling, training, or experience. Its a proven fact that most of them would rather eat the cost of misdiagnosis than to spend the time and money to train someone and have the right tools.

I am a tool whore, generally I spend about 20-40k a year on specialty tools or scanners just to stay on top of things. I make up for it by being the sublet facility for several local shops that do not have the tooling, they send the hard jobs to me and I get paid, then most of them mark up my services to their customer. It was pretty consistent for a few years, but once the customers realized that their car was not getting fixed by their BYB (backyard bob) mechanic, over half of them realized the advantage of paying a little more to someone who knows what they are doing, and have since become pretty damn loyal customers.

But, shops that are like I describe are VERY hard to come by.

 

Here's something to add... I've never had a problem with any car that I couldn't diagnose and fix myself by simply searching various car forums. Maybe I'm lucky that GM cars don't need any fancy tools to work on, but typically is something comes up you can find a thread on it and a full how-to on fixing it on corvetteforum.com or coloradofans.com.

Again... maybe GMs are just easy when it comes to that.

 

I think any car that the masses, or is going to be in the car enthusiast world is going to have a following like that. That still doesn't match up as to why people like the convenience of dropping it off and picking it up, no hassle.

But, I do agree a decent amount of money can be saved if a person looks into it